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Baylor Stadium

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    BaylorGuy314

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    Old300Bear

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    Brian Ethridge ●

  • ohshiza said...

    I heard that BU initially asked for $50 mil, but am very excited if Waco does indeed contribute $35 mil. Waco will see a tremendous benefit from the stadium and athletics. Visitors from other schools will actually enjoy their trip here with the new stadium, being on campus and all the new development.

    While selfishly, I want Waco to help out with the cost of this stadium as much as possible (Baylor benefits Waco greatly...it's time for Waco to help out Baylor a little), I always end up wondering if this $35 million, or whatever the amount ends up being, is a wise use of public/semi-public funds (I know TIFs are not exactly public funds, but they are indirectly). If the TIF board, which represents the businesses located in the TIF district, is on board with this expenditure, then I guess there's no real issue. But history says that government subsidies for stadiums and arenas are generally not sound tax policy...that there are better uses of available funds (including the possibility of returning these funds to the taxpayer).

    That being said, it's still a crying shame that Dallas didn't pony up the $$ needed to get the Ballpark in Arlington built in downtown Dallas.

    This post was edited by boxster on 7/10/2012 at 10:22 AM

    boxster

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  • boxster said...

    While selfishly, I want Waco to help out with the cost of this stadium as much as possible (Baylor benefits Waco greatly...it's time for Waco to help out Baylor a little), I always end up wondering if this $35 million, or whatever the amount ends up being, is a wise use of public/semi-public funds (I know TIFs are not exactly public funds, but they are indirectly). If the TIF board, which represents the businesses located in the TIF district, is on board with this expenditure, then I guess there's no real issue. But history says that government subsidies for stadiums and arenas are generally not sound tax policy...that there are better uses of available funds (including the possibility of returning these funds to the taxpayer).

    That being said, it's still a crying shame that Dallas didn't pony up the $$ needed to get the Ballpark in Arlington built in downtown Dallas.

    Usually, most public stadium financing comes from the city (as an example) issuing bonds and then attempting to pay those bonds from an increase in hotel/rental car/etc taxes.

    In this situation, the City is going to pay Baylor via a formal agreement. That payment will come from an increase in property tax revenue within the TIF zone (which surround the stadium) over the course of the next X years. The thinking is that the stadium will improve the values of properties within the TIF zone and the tax money from that increase in values will pay Baylor.

    It makes a lot of sense. There are a lot of things in the TIF zone now that are virtually worthless to the city as they bring no property tax revenue but to which the City still must provide services. If someone comes in and improves some of those buildings as a result of the stadium, then they will actually be able to collect property taxes from those structures and can forward some of that on to Baylor.

    I am more concerned about how quickly they'll be able to pay the $3M/yr out and be sound financially. To collect an additional $3M/yr within the TIF zone, they'll have to improve the values there by about $100M ($100M in improved values x 3% tax rate = $3M). If there were 1,000 buildings in the TIF zone each would need to be improved by $100K to make this work which seems unlikely to happen on that scale for quite some time. If it doesn't happen in a reasonable timeframe are they just going to jump property tax rates within the TIF to help pay for it or will they just attempt to absorb the $3M/yr. That's an enormous amount of money to absorb for a city like Waco.

    BaylorGuy314

  • Titleist627 said...

    My buddy and I have already decided we are showing up on the day of the groundbreaking (whenever that may be) with hard hat and shovel in hand. Hopefully we can get a pic with Briles or something but mainly I just want to get this thing done!

    I think it would be more appropriate to show up in a green matte finish Alamo Bowl helmet. If 250 or so people showed up in those, they'd think it was a movement, and Briles could sign all the helmets.

    Portly

  • Any update on restaurants that will be coming to Waco?

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  • boxster said...

    While selfishly, I want Waco to help out with the cost of this stadium as much as possible (Baylor benefits Waco greatly...it's time for Waco to help out Baylor a little), I always end up wondering if this $35 million, or whatever the amount ends up being, is a wise use of public/semi-public funds (I know TIFs are not exactly public funds, but they are indirectly). If the TIF board, which represents the businesses located in the TIF district, is on board with this expenditure, then I guess there's no real issue. But history says that government subsidies for stadiums and arenas are generally not sound tax policy...that there are better uses of available funds (including the possibility of returning these funds to the taxpayer).

    That being said, it's still a crying shame that Dallas didn't pony up the $$ needed to get the Ballpark in Arlington built in downtown Dallas.

    Yeah, but the very nature of TIF funds is to improve the area and encourage development. It's not like they're cutting funds to repairing roads or building schools for this. These funds are there for this very purpose. If anyone is uneasy about them being used, then the argument should be made for not having a TIF fund to begin with.

    The city leaders need to do what is best for the city, and the stadium on the river is what is best for the city. It's why they are putting money into it. It's a wise investment.

    Pro Ecclesia, Pro Mundus

    bugramps ●

  • I can imagine Waco has the TIF money on hand but has not spent it as no development has needed it in the area. They also have 2 years to start saving for the additional TIF.

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    Brian Ethridge ●

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    Pro Ecclesia, Pro Mundus

    bugramps ●

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    CammoTX ●

  • BaylorGuy314 said...

    Usually, most public stadium financing comes from the city (as an example) issuing bonds and then attempting to pay those bonds from an increase in hotel/rental car/etc taxes.

    In this situation, the City is going to pay Baylor via a formal agreement. That payment will come from an increase in property tax revenue within the TIF zone (which surround the stadium) over the course of the next X years. The thinking is that the stadium will improve the values of properties within the TIF zone and the tax money from that increase in values will pay Baylor.

    It makes a lot of sense. There are a lot of things in the TIF zone now that are virtually worthless to the city as they bring no property tax revenue but to which the City still must provide services. If someone comes in and improves some of those buildings as a result of the stadium, then they will actually be able to collect property taxes from those structures and can forward some of that on to Baylor.

    I am more concerned about how quickly they'll be able to pay the $3M/yr out and be sound financially. To collect an additional $3M/yr within the TIF zone, they'll have to improve the values there by about $100M ($100M in improved values x 3% tax rate = $3M). If there were 1,000 buildings in the TIF zone each would need to be improved by $100K to make this work which seems unlikely to happen on that scale for quite some time. If it doesn't happen in a reasonable timeframe are they just going to jump property tax rates within the TIF to help pay for it or will they just attempt to absorb the $3M/yr. That's an enormous amount of money to absorb for a city like Waco.

    Wouldn't the city also be the recipient of increased sales taxes from new retail development also?

    I agree that the increased property tax income will not as much as many might think.

    CammoTX ●

  • There are two new strip centers going in on La Salle by campus. One on 10th and La Salle (campus side) and one on 4th and La Salle (cemetery side). My buddy works in the new Brothers Management building on La Salle and was telling me about all the plans he's seen for the new projects. I have no info on this but I hope they put in a few new bars along La Salle because it would be such a cool "strip" like what every other college campus has.

    Titleist627 ●

  • CammoTX said...

    Wouldn't the city also be the recipient of increased sales taxes from new retail development also?

    I agree that the increased property tax income will not as much as many might think.

    Oh, absolutely. The City will, ideally, get a lot more income from the new stadium than just an increase in property values.

    But the TIF is only funded via property tax increases. Thus, if the TIF is paying out $3M/yr, I would assume they have to recoup that from just the tax increases.

    IE, a building in, say, downtown has property taxes of $1000 today. Hopefully, now that the stadium is nearby, someone will develop it and the property will now be worth a lot more and justify $5000 in property taxes. The $4000 increase will go to the TIF.

    This is not a big deal when you are paying out a $500k-1M for a major project here or there (because those projects in an of themselves will help recoup the cost over time as well as improve the values of the surrounding area). But $3M/yr over the next 10 years is a lot of moolah for the TIF because, as I mentioned, it'll require $100M in improvements. I'm not sure there are 100 buildings in the TIF that could realistically be improved by $1M each quick enough.

    That said, I am a big supporter of projects like these. I think that it's in the city's (and citizen's) best interest to try to spur development in that area. Waco has lost a lot of value in it's core (got a major donut effect going on) and it's not going to come back without solid incentives. As a Wacoan, I gladly support this although I'm not exactly sure how it will work as I mentioned above.

    BaylorGuy314

  • Something needs to happen at that old meat packing place. You could make that into a cool bar/eatery if done right.

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    Brian Ethridge ●

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  • boxster said...

    While selfishly, I want Waco to help out with the cost of this stadium as much as possible (Baylor benefits Waco greatly...it's time for Waco to help out Baylor a little), I always end up wondering if this $35 million, or whatever the amount ends up being, is a wise use of public/semi-public funds (I know TIFs are not exactly public funds, but they are indirectly). If the TIF board, which represents the businesses located in the TIF district, is on board with this expenditure, then I guess there's no real issue. But history says that government subsidies for stadiums and arenas are generally not sound tax policy...that there are better uses of available funds (including the possibility of returning these funds to the taxpayer).

    That being said, it's still a crying shame that Dallas didn't pony up the $$ needed to get the Ballpark in Arlington built in downtown Dallas.

    The poster child for a publicly financed stadium cleaning up a blighted area would be what Coors Field in Denver did for the lower downtown area. It was predominantly abandoned warehouses and storefronts that had been taken over by the homeless. Today, seventeen years after opening, the area is a prosperous area of lofts, restaurants and clubs that would not have happened without the infusion of public funds.

    Granted, Denver is larger than Waco but the same type of revitalization will occur in the new Baylor Stadium area.

    This post was edited by roy rogers on 7/10/2012 at 12:13 PM

    roy rogers ●

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